Navigating Imperfection with the 20 Shitty Episode Experiment

We all know we approach podcasting a little differently here at Uncommonly More, and today I’m sharing a prime example of that. We’re diving headfirst into what I like to call the “20 Shitty Episode Experiment.” Yep, you heard that right! We’re all about embracing those perfectly imperfect first episodes and turning them into golden learning opportunities.

We’ll chat about why it’s totally okay to fumble around a bit as you find your podcasting groove, in fact, it’s essential. I’ll share some juicy tips on how to experiment, discover your unique voice, and make sure your podcast lines up with your business goals. Plus, we’re going to get real about the nitty-gritty of DIY production and why sometimes, less is more when you’re just starting out.

We’re taking it a step further in this episode of The More Profitable Podcast and talk about how established podcasters can use this experiment when making a change. Plus, the signs to know when it’s time to go all in on your podcast and line up the support you need to shift it to the next level. 

01:13 – How to break free from perfectionism and start creating podcast content to find your style and voice.

04:36 – Even for experienced podcasters, it is important to continue experimenting and making changes.

06:44 – Some of the outside changes that might dictate a change to your existing podcast.

11:13 – Encouraging DIY podcast production as a way to get started and try on podcasting as a beginner.

20:42 – How to balance personal experimentation with creating episodes that serve as sales assets.

26:24 – Tips for determining the success of an experiment and when it’s time to go all in.

31:59 – When to debrief and identify the support needed to move forward effectively.

Mentioned in Navigating Imperfection with the 20 Shitty Episode Experiment

Podcasts for Profit: How Nicole Otchy Uses Her Podcast as a Sales Asset

Podcasting for Profitability Roundtable

Podcast Strategy Intensive

Rate and Review The More Profitable Podcast

What would you do if I told you that the first 20 episodes of your podcast were allowed to be terrible? Would it make it easier for you to get started or get moving in a new direction?

I want to talk about the 20-shitty episode experiment. I laugh because this is a real thing we talk about and it's titled exactly that way because too often we see podcasters and business owners trying to build a perfect show before they've recorded even a second of audio or trying to make a major change in their show without giving themselves some space to explore that new direction.

That's what we're going to talk about today. We're going to talk about why you have to have this approach when you're launching something new and when you're making a change because it's what makes sure that the totality of this experiment is actually valuable.

Welcome to The More Profitable Podcast with Stacey Harris. I'm Stacey. This is the spot to learn more about the strategies, tactics, and tools you need to build your more profitable podcast. My team and I work every day with podcasters like you to shift shows from frustrating time sucks to productive members of your sales team, because your show should be built to generate and convert leads. So let's get into it.

Let me be clear, as we're talking through this, this is 100% true if you've not ever done a podcast before, if you're somebody who has thought about podcasting or has been convinced by one person or another that podcasting is for you, or it's just something you've always wanted to try but maybe you have put the barriers of perfection, we'll call them, all of these reasons that you won't be able to do the “right way” so you've set it aside, this approach is critical to side-stepping that because you will not figure out what the current version of perfect looks like until you start figuring out what the current vision of imperfect looks like.

Until you start feeling through it, you will not find your process, you will not find your style, you will not find your voice, you will not find your structure until you start living it a little bit.

That's why I love the permission slip to create 20 shitty episodes of your podcast at the beginning because once you're 30 or 50 episodes in, no one's listening to those first 20.

Quite frankly, what you consider terrible, your audience, your community, the people who are looking for you to show up, they're not going to notice it. They're not going to think, “Well, this is terrible.”

Often our shitty is great. It's just our attachment to perfection, the ever-elusive and totally non-existent perfection that keeps us from showing up and producing anything. It's sort of like we hear this cliche a lot when we get to that time of year when we're doing goal setting and people are always talking about, “Stretch your goal a little further. Reach for the stars or reach for this if you’re out of space, you're going to fall amongst the stars,” whatever that terrible cliche is that I absolutely just butchered but you know what I mean, stretch a little farther, that way if you fall short you're still really happy with the results.

Where you're sitting down not doing it is never going to make you happy. Doing a crappy version of this or what feels like a crappy version of this, which is in all honesty and in full transparency, not actually going to be crappy, is better than nothing.

We're going to talk about a couple of elements of this here shortly. We're going to talk about what production needs to look like, we're going to talk about who these episodes are for and the sales perspective there, and then we're going to talk about knowing when it's time to make a change and go all in. When it is time to say, "Cool, this works. I want to do this another way," or when to note, "This doesn't work and it's time for me to bail because this is just not the right thing for me."

That's what we're going to talk through as we talk through this experiment. Before we do that though, I want to be clear, I've talked a lot about this being for somebody at the beginning, for somebody who wants to try this on who's never done this.

I've teased this a little bit. I want to be just super clear about it because I think oftentimes, we are under the perception that we only get this permission slip one time, that this only applies to when we first start.

So if you're sitting here and you're listening to me and you've been doing your show for six months, a year, or two years or maybe you had a show at some point and you just don't feel like a beginner anymore, I don't want you to feel like you've lost the time or the space to do this kind of shift, do this kind of experiment, to take this approach because it's absolutely not true.

I have done this multiple times in multiple ways in the course of these 640+ episodes of this podcast because things have changed, and things have evolved. When we rebranded from Hit the Mic to Uncommonly More, that Uncommonly More period, the beginning of it, was this experiment, was me going, going, "Okay, we're going to see what this feels like now."

I wasn't starting from the beginning. I had some data to work with. We all have a lot more data to work with than we think we do. We're going to talk about this as we talk through this, but even if you're somebody who's making a change, I want you to give yourself some permission to just sort of flop around for a little bit.

The dance moves don't have to be perfect, improvise as it were. I want you to feel comfortable trying some new things on. This is especially true if you're somebody who's been podcasting consistently and now you're having a really hard time getting your show done.

You have to take a step back and say, “Is my show built to be in alignment with my business?” Because sometimes we’re sort of running this content machine and sneakily, quietly our business gets pulled in a new direction, maybe an offer that didn’t use to exist has really blown up and it kind of sits separately from the content that you talk about on your podcast.

Maybe your target, and this one is really common, maybe your target market has shifted. Who you work with has changed. Especially if you are somebody who started a podcast sort of nearish the beginning of your business.

Now that you are a year or two years in, and you've learned some things. Your experience has taught you that maybe who you thought was your right-fit client sucks. It's just not the right fit. There's an evolution there.

Then give yourself some time to start playing in this experiment again and saying, “I'm going to give myself,” maybe it's not 20 episodes, maybe it's 5 episodes, maybe it's 4, it's a month of episodes, where you're like, “I'm going to play with some language.”

This is something I love about podcasting, these things are updatable, these things are changeable, and this week's is going to be replaced by next week's. If I get to a point where something is completely out of alignment, I'll go back, if it's an asset and it's something that I'm like, “This needs to be cleaned up, not deleted,” we'll re-record it.

We have done this a couple of times with the What Working With Uncommonly More Episode Looks Like. We're getting ready to do this again for that episode. As we re-release it over the summer, I'm actually not going to straight re-release it, I'm re-recording it because it needs to be updated. Spoiler alert, that's also happening for the Podcast Housekeeping Series that we run in August every year.

I'm re-recording this year's episodes because some shifts have happened. I have found a better way to express what I talk about. I want to clean that series up a little bit and a big part of that just in full transparency, it's built to sell something different now.

When I launched the Podcast Housekeeping Series a couple of years ago, we didn't have The Profitable Podcaster Mastermind. Now, that series in August will be our lead-up to kicking off the September, October, and November rounds.

That content is now going to be a series of sales assets that help lead people into The Profitable Podcaster Mastermind. Previously, it was built to sell the Podcast Strategy Intensive.

We're re-recording it to redirect and clean it up into something that's relevant for the business as it sits now, for the calendar, the marketing calendar, and the sales calendar, as it lives in my business now.

These are not something that you'll never be able to fix, you'll never be able to change, you'll never be able to evolve. They're just the best you're doing right now. You're working with the clarity you have now because you will never stop getting clarity. You will never reach a point in your business where you know everything about all of it. That's why this is so imperative.

Before we start digging into what production of this experiment looks like, because that's where I want us to shift next, I want to remind you that we do have a Podcasting for Profitability Roundtable coming up next month.

If you'd like to join us, I would highly recommend getting it on your calendar. I'd also highly recommend reserving your spot. If you go over to uncommonlymore.com/roundtable, you can reserve your spot. When you do that, you will get a link to submit a question. I always prioritize questions that have been submitted in advance, but if you don't have a question right now, that's cool.

Come to the call. A, most often, you will be inspired by the question somebody else asks, and B, sometimes the question somebody else asked was your question, and you end up getting an answer without ever having to ask a question.

Either way, head on to uncommonlymore.com/roundtable, reserve your seat, and come hang out with me, I am super stoked to be rolling this out. With that, let’s talk production for this experiment. This is all about the minimum viable product. Really, minimum viable production is what I would call this. I want you to consider this your permission slip to DIY this.

I know that feels shocking coming from somebody who professionally does this for other people. As a done-for-you service provider and not just somebody who teaches this, this can be a surprising bit of feedback.

But I don't think you should hire a full-on production agency to launch a podcast experiment to evolve your show or relaunch your show if you don't really know what you want to be doing with it. When you're still figuring it out, feel free to DIY it.

Now, if that feels wildly overwhelming and you're like, "I can't edit, I'm not editing audio," and you still want the space to be able to have edited audio, somebody who's going to clean out the ums and the silences and keep everything balanced and leveled and add your intro and outro, cool, find an inexpensive podcast editor, not a manager, not a producer, you want an editor. You want somebody who's going to clean up your audio and give it back to you, that's it.

If you've got somebody on your team who already helps you with show notes or blog post writing, cool, you can have them help you with this if you want to. But the easiest way, the fastest way for you to get clarity around what you want this to look like will be to go through the discomfort of doing it yourself, which is one of the reasons I highly recommend completely producing this and then releasing it.

One of the things we work a lot with on clients who are getting ready to launch and in full transparency, we don't actually launch podcasts very often, I won't say never because we did one this year. We actually talked about it.

We sat down with Nicole Otchy on this show and we talked about launching her second podcast this year for her. She worked with us in production. I'll link to that episode in the show notes. It's a great conversation to follow this one up with.

But we don't launch many shows. Nicole is an outlier because A, she had podcasted before, and B, she had been through the planning and prep of this in a program with me. She did the planning, the prep, and the clarity getting of launching the show in the Profitable Podcaster Mastermind that we ran our first cohort last fall.

She had been in the work with me already. It was a no-brainer that we would go into launch together. But in most cases, we don't do them because I don't recommend a team like ours for lunch.

There needs to be a lot of clarity that this is the thing you are going to do when you get how it’s going to be structured. In most cases, when we’re helping a client with a launch, we are doing it through a Podcast Strategy Intensive. That’s the place where I would recommend, if you want to feel supported during this experiment, focus on strategy and not production.

Sit down with your coach, with a podcast producer, with a content marketing expert. Grab a Podcast Strategy Intensive. This is something we do a lot in Podcast Strategy Intensives.

What's cool about doing it in an intensive is we can talk about the content, we can talk about the production stuff, we can build you out a strategy to DIY that minimum viable production, and we can talk about the launch, and we can talk about the marketing of the launch and getting it out there so that you have all of the clarity around things that need to be done.

We can together make some of the decisions about, “This is worth having somebody help you with and this isn't,” so that you're able to then go to what I call “production mode” and just focus on getting those recorded and produced and then releasing them and just focus on releasing them and marketing them and getting an audience to this experiment, especially true if you're launching for the very first time.

This is especially true if you're somebody who's never ever podcasted before because you will wildly underestimate the amount of effort it takes to market the show and you will get stuck in the production of it because it's a lot. It is task-heavy. There's a reason people hire other people to do it. There's a reason people hire us to do it. It is a list of tasks. It is stuff to do.

When you are in the sort of week to week of it, we'll say, where it's, “Okay, I'm recording. I'm producing. I'm releasing. Oh, it's time to record and start that cycle again,” you end up skipping the marketing step.

Then we're 5 episodes in, 10 episodes in, 20 episodes in, and you're going, “Well, no one listens.” It's because you never actually told anyone it existed. If you can do this in batches where you sit down and you do the strategy, again, this is the place I would pull a hiring lever, is to bring in somebody to support you.

That could be a coach you already work with, that could be somebody on your team, that could be a podcast strategist like myself, you'll figure out what that looks like for you.

I've had clients who have done it all three ways. The only time I have found somebody who really struggled with this is when they tried to do it alone because it is hard to get outside of your brain a little with it. I'll just say that.

Anyways, batch that, batch recording, batch your production, and then start releasing. That way you can really focus on each piece, which is imperative because here's the part of this that we don't talk about enough.

You're evaluating every part of this. Every bit of this is data collection. That's what really brings us to our next point, which is that this is the one time I'll say that this podcast is for you.

We've got a whole episode where I talk about how this podcast isn't for me. I'll link it in the show notes. I believe it's called This Podcast Is For You because this show, The More Profitable Podcast, does not belong to me. It is not mine. It is not for me.

It's not because I just really like sitting here alone in my office staring at my computer talking to myself. I do enjoy it, I won't lie. But this is not why this show exists. It exists for you. It exists to move you out of your podcast frustration and into the profitable podcast you want to be running. The show that generates, educates, and converts your right-fit clients consistently, that's the purpose of this show. That's the goal of this show.

However, the first 20 episodes of this show, and again, let's not even go back to episodes 1 through 20, let's go back to rebranding this show from Hit the Mic with The Stacey Harris to Uncommonly More with Stacey Harris when we launched this agency, I was in that experimentation mode. What does this look like? What is the kind of content I put out to attract these right-fit clients? Who are the right fit clients? What are these right-fit services?

In the first year of this agency, we completely evolved and narrowed our offerings. We went from being what I call the full-service digital marketing agency where we did email marketing, we did social media marketing, we did content marketing, we did blog stuff, we did all sorts of stuff when we launched this agency in 2019. By 2020, we were a podcast-only, podcast production agency.

I had to be willing to stay flexible in my tone, my focus, my structure, in my process because I was evaluating all of it for what was going to work next. Now, that's why it's so imperative to be batching each of these sections; the planning, the recording, the production, the release, the marketing, the repurposing even because I'm evaluating how each one of these elements needs to be done.

This is where we're going to find out, this is where we're going to make note of where we need to prioritize handing stuff off when it's time to go all in, which is what we're going to talk about next.

Now, I want to just take a minute and clarify here, because when I say that these first 20 episodes, or whatever number of episodes experiment you're going to run, when I say that these episodes are for you, that does not mean that you should be ignoring the importance of them being a sales asset.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't be doing the things we need to do to educate, to convert. It still has to be about getting the results in your business that you want to be getting.

This is why I go back to the example with Nicole Otchy, and again, we'll link my conversation with her in the show notes because we spoke about this in that episode. She did that work of saying, "This is going to be for me, but for this process to be for me, I need to be making sure that I'm building episodes that are going to be for my listener, that are still going to be a sales asset."

We did that work in The Profitable Podcasters Mastermind. We mapped out what her experiment content would be in that container so that she could focus on figuring out what that looked like, and what the questions she was asking herself were so that she built a baseline so that when we go and revisit that in a quarterly call, we can say—and we actually just did this—we can say, “Here's what I want to do more of, here's the feedback I'm getting, here's the episodes that are working.”

We're still collecting valuable data from those episodes because we're still being intentional about building something from a sales perspective that's going to generate, educate, and convert right-fit clients, even though these episodes are most for us.

That's how you come out of the gate with a show that converts. Even when you're in this 20 shitty episode experiment, you're still going to be building something that can work, that does work.

Because the experiment is not just about what content works and doesn't work. It's not just about, “Am I saying the right things to convince them to buy?” Some of this experiment is, “Do I like podcasting? Is this the medium for me to teach in? Is this the stage I want to build for myself?” That's the way I frame the question the most often because for me, I know if I can talk to you, if I can present in this way, I can convert.

I know this from standing on actual physical stages. If I can get in front of you, I can get you to talk to me at the door, I can get you to convert in some way, whether that's get on my list, buy a thing, or whatever. I know that if I can talk to you, I can sell you.

This has been true for me since I was a kid and was wandering the neighborhoods of Peoria Arizona knocking on doors and selling people Girl Scout cookies.

If I can get you to open the door, I have a pretty good chance I'm going to convert you into some Girl Scout cookies. It was true when I sold commercial property insurance. It was true when I was doing telemarketing. I've had a lot of sales jobs, guys.

It's true now when I stand on a stage, when I meet somebody at an event, if I can get you to talk to me, I can identify your need. If I can fulfill your need, I can sell it to you.

I don't want you to minimize that this is for you to decide if that's true for you in this medium because for some people, what works is if I can write to you, if I can get you to read my writing, this is not true for me. If I gave you to read a blog post I wrote, you’ll probably never hire me because it lacks all personality, it lacks all engagement, even if it's crafted really well to speak to your needs.

It's not my superpower. Maybe it is for you. Honestly, we've had people who we did a Podcast Strategy Intensive with, somebody really, really early in the Podcast Strategy Intensives.

We mapped out all this great content and they recorded a handful of episodes and they were like, "I hate this. It's so laborious for me to record." We talked about why and we went through it and I was like, "Maybe you shouldn't podcast. Have you thought about doing this in other mediums? Write blogs, do videos, videos, whatever.”

They're like, "Well, I've always loved to write. That's my favorite thing to do." I was like, "Then use the exact same plan, the exact same structure, and write blog posts." Guess what? They're killing it. They repurpose them onto other mediums. They have had stuff picked up by big publications. The content structure still worked. The strategy of when to say what, still applied.

But they figured out that the medium wasn't right for them. But because they approached it from the perspective of building sales assets when we sat down to do the strategy, it worked regardless of whether the medium worked for them or not, which allowed them to experiment in the medium in a really meaningful way.

Because it wasn't, “This doesn't work because the content plan sucked.” It was, “This doesn't work because this medium sucks for me.” That's allowed. Not everything is for everybody. We all get to have our preferences. We all get to have our skill sets. We all get to have what comes easiest to us.

For this client, the filter between their brain and their mouth is much bigger than the one between their brain and their hands. The opposite is true for me. Anybody who's ever listened to me talk knows this. The filter between my brain and my mouth doesn't exist. There isn't one. I lost it years ago. I'm not sure I came with one. Honestly, I think they left that one out of my model. It's not there.

With that said, the filter between my brain and my hands makes up for it. Because anything that I could say in 10 words can be written in three. Step one is, blah, blah. It's just where I'm at.

This experiment is for you to try this on. But for it to be a successful experiment, an honest experiment, and good quality data, you do still want to be approaching it with the intentionality that you would post experiment, which is that this is a sales tool.

Now, let's say you started the experiment, you built it strategically, you rocked and rolled it, you're X amounted episodes in and you're like, "I love this. This is for me," maybe you're already seeing convert, whatever it is, it's working, or at least to feel like it's working, how do you know when it's time to go all in?

Because here's the danger of the 20 shitty episode experiment. Because I tell you, and I mean it, do as much of this on your own as you can, DIY as much of that 20-episode experiment as possible, because I want your hands on it, it's easy though to just keep going in that way. It's easy to just go, "Well, this has worked for this long. Maybe this is how it works. I have to do it this way for it to work.”

In fact, as I'm saying this out loud, what's popping into my head is another part of my marketing and my business that I'm in this place in. I have always done our own social media for better or worse. I sold social media services. I taught social media for a long time.

We had Hit the Mic backstage where I built strategies and taught people how to build social strategies. We had Social Pro, which is a whole course where I taught people how to do social. We had programs specific to teaching specific platforms of my mastermind. I have offered this as a service for years. It was one of the initial services in my business 11, 12 years ago.

But now I really want to go all in on social. There are some things I want to do in that space, but I don't want to do it. It's coming to a point where I could say, “Well, it's always worked this way. It needs to work this way.” Or, I can start getting some support instead of continuing to honestly struggle and suffer in DIY land with this. When you start to feel that discomfort of, "I know this is working, but it's getting to be too much to carry,” it's time to hand it off.

We had Sarah Cottrell on the show, I want to say two years ago now. I'm not sure. We'll link it in the show notes. We talked about this on her episode because Sarah launched her podcast and DIYed it for a while before starting to work with us.

I think we came in the 50s. It might have even been 100 episodes in. I think she did just a year before she hired us. It’s such a good example of, “I don’t know if this is going to work. I am just putting one foot in front of the other,” to, “Oh, no, this is going to be a centerpiece in my business. This is going to be an important part of my business’s structure and offers and I am going to invest in it like it is.”

I’ll make sure we link that episode in the show notes but you are going to need to figure out that moment. The best way to do it is to build in checkpoints. For some of our clients who are launching and DIYing, as I said, they'll start with a Podcast Strategy Intensive.

We'll build out their content plan for their experiment. We'll build out a launch strategy on that intensive day. Oftentimes, what we'll do is we'll book their next one before they launch so that we know “This is where you're going to make the decision around whether you're going to keep going or not,” instead of just going, “Well I'm going to give it another month. One more month, two more months, one more quarter. I'll check on this next year,” and you end up burning out and therefore fading away because you don't have the support to keep this sustainable.

I'll be honest with you, even with support, sustainability can be hard. It is difficult to stay in this week after week, month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year. I say that as somebody who's done 640-plus episodes of a podcast.

It's hard and I have support and I do this professionally. It's hard. It gets easier though, when you build in support, when you build in process and structure. The best way to do that is to ahead of time know, “Here's where I'm going to check in on this.”

As you're kicking off your experiment, I want you to build those in. I want you to have, if you're somebody who's building this out in say your project management software, you've got Asana open, ClickUp, Monday, whatever it is, I want you to build in a task that is check-in, “Do I still want to do this? How is it going?”

I want you to debrief this, all of it, the process, the results, and ask yourself, each and every check-in, “What support do I need now to move forward?” Because it may be, “I need to sit down with my coach. I need to sit down with Stacey again for an intensive. I just need somebody to hold my hand through the strategy part of this. I need somebody to hold the lens to help me see outside of my brain to build the plan.”

Or, “Yeah, I'm ready to hand off all of it. I just want to have to record and share. That's it.” Cool. That gets easier to identify when you've built in the question, otherwise, you're not going to ask it until you're burned out. That's too late.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that we are all really good at being uncomfortable. It seems to be some special skill as a business owner, we sometimes almost thrive in the discomfort of it all, in the overwhelm of it all, and it's dangerous because we often don't realize we're burned out until we're hella burned out, until we are all the way cooked, babe.

So build in these debrief points, build in these question points, get people in your life to hold you accountable to asking, “Is it time to get support?” Because especially if this feels like it's going well, especially if it “works,” it will feel really easy to just keep doing it the same way and that will at some point become unsustainable. It is imperative that you're building in these supports.

Like I said, oftentimes, this support can be a Podcast Strategy Intensive. That is certainly a landmark you can put in. One of my favorite things that I did not at all expect to come from Podcast Strategy Intensives is that we would have recurring clients who just did intensives.

Because for some of our clients, they went into these experiments, we kicked it off with an intensive and that's been great. They actually don't mind the editing. They actually don't mind if they've got a VA on their team, an OBM, or somebody on their team, a marketing assistant who helps them with the graphics and the show notes.

They've got some mechanism already in their business that will help them with the production inside. But they need somebody who can help plan and help debrief. We'll build these strategy intensives where they just do it two, three, four times a year.

We have some clients who do them quarterly. I think we only have one client that does it quarterly. Yeah, only one client that does it quarterly. Most people who repeat do it two or three times a year.

Because most of the time we get more than a quarter for the content planned, especially once we're repeating, once we've done these a couple of times. But build that in, book in, and let's do your kickoff before you're ready. Let's get that second one on the calendar.

If this is feeling like the right time to roll out this experiment, the Podcast Strategy Intensive is a great way to kick it off. Let's have a conversation though about if now's the right time. If you head on over to uncommonlymore.com/intensive, you can actually book a free 30-minute call with me, so we can talk through if this experiment is the right time for you and how you want to approach this experiment.

If a Podcast Strategy Intensive is a good way to kick it off, I will absolutely recommend it, if it’s not I will absolutely point you in another direction. Like I said, that direction may be a Profitable Podcaster Mastermind, that has been really helpful.

For a couple of people who are getting ready to kick off their launch experiments, that's what we built out in the course of their time in the mastermind. For some people, it's, "Yeah, go sit down with your coach. Go sit down with your business bestie." Or, “No, you've tried this and you hated it. Let's build you a content plan for some other kind of medium, whatever that may be.”

But all of that can come from that quick 30-minute conversation ahead of the intensive. If you are not sure, let's chat. Let's have a conversation. All right, uncommonlymore.com/intensive to get that booked. With that, we've got a long one, so I'm going to let you go. If you have questions, reach out and let me know. I will see you again right back here next week.

Thanks so much for listening to this show. Remember that content consumption does not make changes, so commit to doing something from today's episode. Maybe it's taking action on what we talked about. Maybe it's reaching out to me and learning more about Podcast Strategy Intensives or what podcast production looks like with our team. All of that is over at uncommonlymore.com.

If you haven't yet signed up for The Podcast Newsroom, I want to remind you that is a great next step. If you're not really sure what comes next, hang out over there. Get those exclusive private episodes. That's over at podcastnewsroom.com. The last favor I will ask, because social proof is endlessly important for sure, is to leave a rating and review for the show. If you go to ratethispodcast.com/more, that's the easiest way to do it. But I would love to hear what you thought of the show, what you think of the show, and if the show has been helpful for you. I can't wait to chat with you. This is just the start of the conversation. Reach out so we can keep it going. Talk soon.

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