How can the Profitable Podcaster Mastermind help you if you already have a good process in place for your show?
Elizabeth Sherman has been podcasting for about three years. She’s a pretty organized, process-driven person who works ahead of schedule and with someone she trusts. Still, she felt the need for more support and a strategic approach to her show, particularly with a rebranding on the horizon.
In this episode of The More Profitable Podcast, you’ll hear about how our work together through the Profitable Podcaster Mastermind has moved Elizabeth from reactively releasing episodes to proactively using her show as an asset and how her perspective on her podcast has changed. You’ll also discover the secret to batching episodes without frying your brain and exhausting your energy.
3:22 – Elizabeth discusses her podcast rebrand and her struggle with changing the name
6:46 – Fun fact about why diets don’t work for midlife women
8:55 – How the mastermind helped Elizabeth be more proactive with using her podcast as an asset
13:39 – How Elizabeth has repurposed some of her content into a cool, pre-client education opt-in
18:55 – The belief that changed for Elizabeth when she looked at the data behind her podcast
20:35 – What Elizabeth’s process looks like now and how to batch episodes without burning out
28:06 – A bonus tip to help you feel better about the results of your show
Connect with Elizabeth Sherman
As a Master Certified Life and Health Coach, Elizabeth empowers women in midlife to embrace vitality and wellness. With over 17 years of experience, she combines her personal journey and extensive certifications – including Life Coaching, Feminist Coaching, Health Coaching, Nutrition, Women’s Hormonal Health, and Personal Training – to guide women through the challenges of midlife health and wellness.
Goal Setting Series:
Mentioned In How to Make a Well-Organized Podcast Even Better with Elizabeth Sherman
Stacey Harris: I love this conversation and it's not just because one of Elizabeth's unexpected wins came out of data but I want you to definitely listen to our conversation around data because it's a good one. It's a good one. Super stoked to bring Elizabeth Sherman on the show. She's going to talk about podcast rebrands. We're going to talk about data. We're going to talk about repeatable series. It's a good one. Let's get into it.
Welcome to The More Profitable Podcast with Stacey Harris. I'm Stacey. This is the spot to learn more about the strategies, tactics, and tools you need to build your more profitable podcast. My team and I work every day with podcasters like you to shift shows from frustrating time sucks to productive members of your sales team, because your show should be built to generate and convert leads. So let's get into it.
Welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me. I'm so excited to introduce you to Elizabeth Sherman. On the off chance you may not yet know who she is, we work together inside of the Profitable Podcaster Mastermind and I wanted to bring her on the show today because there was a lot about her show working.
She's got a good process. She works with somebody she trusts. She's a process-driven person so she was already pretty organized. She was already ahead in her show and yet there were some changes, there were some things she needed feedback on, there were some things she needed support on, and we're going to dig into exactly what that looked like in today's conversation.
I want you to make sure you listen. Also, make sure you check out Elizabeth's newly rebranded podcast. I might add we've got all the details inside of the conversation and of course, I will share the links in the show notes so you can go check it out. But she talks about, inside the episode, a repeatable series that she ran at the end of the year that I highly recommend you check out if you're looking at setting some goals for yourself this year. It's a good one so make sure you stay tuned.
Before we jump into the interview, I want to remind you if you've not yet reserved your spot to join us for the Podcasting for Profitability Roundtable, I want you to do that because it's coming up. This is a great place to get support, a great place to get your questions answered. We are going to be doing these monthly so join us for our next one. You can do it at uncommonlymore.com/roundtable.
We have made a change. Again, I've been talking about this but I'm going to keep mentioning it because I'm really excited about it. We're no longer offering a replay or a recording for the call. I want you to commit to joining us on the call, showing up, asking your questions. You can still absolutely submit your questions ahead of time.
I like to do this because when I have a question and I sign up for something, I often forget when it comes time for the actual call. You can still submit your question in advance. The other thing that allows me to do is a little bit of research, a little bit of noodling around, a little bit of looking at stuff so that I can come in and give you a more complete answer. So head on over to uncommonlymore.com/roundtable, reserve your seat, submit your question, and we will come together live for our next Roundtable discussion. I can't wait to see you there.
Without any further ado, here's Elizabeth.
Hi, Elizabeth. Thanks for joining me.
Elizabeth Sherman: Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to have this conversation and to share with everyone.
Stacey Harris: I'm super excited that you agreed to join me and are here with me. I want to jump right in and I want to start with setting the scene, tell us a little bit about your business, and maybe more specifically your podcast.
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. My podcast has been in production for almost three years now.
Stacey Harris: Nice.
Elizabeth Sherman: I know. I really cannot believe it. I just published episode 151. I was like, “How did that even happen?”
Stacey Harris: That's awesome. Congratulations.
Elizabeth Sherman: I know. It's exciting. But I am a health and life coach for women in midlife. My podcast, as we're talking right now, I am in the finishing stages of rebranding and that's what's happening within my business as well. It was previously Done with Dieting but as of January 1st, it is going to be called The Total Health in Midlife Podcast.
Stacey Harris: Oh, I love the name. I hadn't heard it yet, sorry.
Elizabeth Sherman: Oh, you hadn’t.
Stacey Harris: No, you hadn't shared it. You were still in deciding when we wrapped.
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah, and everyone that I've talked to about it has really been positive in like, “Oh, that makes sense,” especially when they talk to me and they know what I think about, how I talk about health, and all of that great stuff.
It's been a year in the making. It's been a really difficult year just because I've really struggled with I love the name Done with Dieting. I think even at the beginning of when we started working together, I was like like, “No, I don't want to give it up,” and you were like, “Let it die,” and everyone was just telling me, “Let it die,” and I couldn't.
Stacey Harris: I don't know if we talked a ton in the program, we might have talked about this when we had this conversation but for me, when a podcast can help loop you in on the podcast promise an understanding of who the show is for and what we're going to talk about here, it's really helpful.
When we talk about listener growth, we got to make it easy. There are so many shows, there's a lot of them and so when we can be really honest and really clear about who it's for and what we're going to talk about here, I love Done with Dieting too, I think it is a great name, I don't think it's in alignment with where you're going next.
I think I said verbatim that to you when we talked about it. It's like, “It's great. Nothing wrong. You made a great choice. It was fantastic for a season of the show. It's a new time.” I love that.
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah, and so for the past year, I've been pivoting away from weight loss into health for women in midlife really helping them to move into that next stage of health like what do we want our retirement to look like and how do we protect our health now so that when we move into that next phase, we're not kicking ourselves.
Stacey Harris: Well, and one of the things we've learned when we start to hit 40s, etc is that it maybe isn't the exact same process it was when we were 25. Even if we've been really healthy and doing things and we're like, “I'm solid,” it's like, “Oh, wait, wait, things are changing.”
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah, well, okay, completely opposite but little detour here.
Stacey Harris: Oh, I'm excited.
Elizabeth Sherman: Fun fact that women's bodies were actively excluded from scientific research until the 1950s.
Stacey Harris: I learned this like a month ago and it blew my mind.
Elizabeth Sherman: Yes. All of the diets and all of the health strategies that we follow were done based on the physiology of college-aged men.
Stacey Harris: White men.
Elizabeth Sherman: Exactly.
Stacey Harris: Let's be even more specific.
Elizabeth Sherman: Let's be specific, yeah. To think that a woman in midlife has the same physiology as a college-aged man is completely ridiculous. That's why diets do not work for us. The whole eat less, move more thing, just throw it out the window, we cannot do that anymore. Okay, I will get off my soapbox.
Stacey Harris: No, I love this and I think this is a great thing to talk about because one of the things I have learned in the course of my life is I have been at my least healthy when I ate the least, when I was like, “Oh, no, no. We're at a deficit, we've got to minimize this.”
It's been when it was hardest for me to lose weight, it's been when I felt the crappiest, it's been when I have been at I'm going to say my weakest as far as I really like strength training, I do a lot of weightlifting, that kind of stuff, I have a much harder time being able to increase my strength and I always really like when I hit new PRs, and I'm like, “Oh, I'm feeling extra sassy and strong today.”
When I'm in a calory deficit and I'm not eating, I'm like, “Oh, I can't do anything.” Suddenly, I can't even lift the bar and it's like, “Oh, it's because food is fuel and we have to be fueling for our activity.” This is something I probably should have known before my 30s. It's crazy. Hey, I grew up in the early 2000s. It was a crazy time for food and diets. We all made some real choices.
No, I love this. I want to shift this back to talking a little bit about the podcast because I have a feeling you and I could go around about this for a long time. As you were deciding to join us for the Profitable Podcaster Mastermind, I know you had the possibility of the rebrand, sort of that happening, were there any other catalysts for being like, “No, this is what I want to do”?
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. I really just needed some help. I felt like I didn't really have a strategy when it came to my podcast. I felt like I was just recording episodes. Not that I was ever at a point in my podcast where I was like, “I have no idea what to record this week,” and quickly got something out of there.
Since my podcast was in production for three years, I had already started a system. I really liked that I was producing ahead of time but I was still producing every single week. I wanted to do more batch-style podcast episodes but one of the things that I really struggled with was from a business standpoint, I wasn't organized enough where I would say, “Okay, I want to host a webinar or I want to launch a program or do something within my business and have the podcast actually support that.”
What was happening was I was caught in this weird confusion of “Well, I want to record five weeks out so that I have plenty of time to produce the IP around the podcast but I'm afraid that I'm going to want to do different things and need some launch runway or something like that that these sets of podcasts are going to get in the way of.” That was really where I was trying to figure it all out.
Stacey Harris: I think that's super common, especially for a show that's been around a while, is at some point, that can start to almost operate in parallel to your business instead of with it like tied together. So you end up with like podcast content and marketing materials and they don't necessarily speak to each other and the timing can be off.
I also really love, because it sounds like, I'm going to put some words in your mouth because I assume I'm right, but it sounds like it has really allowed you to start thinking about your, I'm not going to say long-term but medium-term marketing plans, larger business plans by really intentionally starting to think about the podcast ahead. Am I right?
Elizabeth Sherman: Absolutely. Now I really like that what we did was I started to look at the upcoming year. I don't necessarily have launches, webinars, or anything like that actively scheduled but I know what the seasons are. If you had asked me last year or the year before, I would have known that but now it's a little bit more intentional in terms of “Okay, so spring is the time where people really start to think about their health and so these are the types of podcasts that I want to have or episodes that I want to have playing during that time.” It's made me a little bit more proactive.
Stacey Harris: I love that. I'll be honest with you, the reason I said it is because I find that with a lot of clients, especially our production clients, this happens a lot, is our quarterly call lining up on the calendar regularly is the catalyst for “Oh, I'm going to meet with Stacey. I better know what we're selling next quarter.”
So it backdoored them into really doing a level of sales and marketing planning that they hadn't necessarily done before. It had always been more what I call responsive like I'm responding to “I need to sell this, I need to generate X amount of dollars, I need to build the list because we've got to launch this next month because then we're going to hit holidays or whatever.”
It's always responding to circumstance instead of taking, for lack of a better word, control, and ownership over “Where do I want this to go?” I love the “Where do I want this to go” because it is much more “I'm driving the bus, I can make these decisions” instead of me running behind trying to put things together and figure stuff out. I like that that's been impactful for you as you look ahead to next year, especially when you are in a time of rebranding.
One of the things we talked so much about was we've got these great assets in the old brand, are we going to repurpose them? Are we going to update them? Are we going to re-release them? Through that conversation, you put together a really cool opt-in. Can we talk a little bit about that?
Elizabeth Sherman: Sure.
Stacey Harris: What was it that you put together?
Elizabeth Sherman: I have a listener guide and I mean after 150 episodes, people would start my podcast and they'd be like, “I have no idea.” I felt like a lot of the things that I talk about today really weren't like if I had a new podcast listener, they might be like, “Okay, but where are the fundamentals? Where are the building blocks?”
I have this listener guide that walks my listener through, and I have a secondary opt-in which is called The Eight Basic Habits That Healthy People Do, and that opt-in is really the foundation of the principles that I work my coaching on, both with my group and with my one-on-one clients.
What the listener guide does is it actually sits on top of that and it guides the listener through “Okay, so these are the habits and then these are how our mindset shifts that we need to implement,” or why, this is one of my favorite things that people come to me with is The Eight Basic Habits, I mean I could talk about them right now but they're all things that we all know: drink water, eat vegetables, move, get sleep, whatever. We all know how to do that stuff.
The question that people come to me with is “Well, I know what to do. I'm just not doing it.” That mindset work which is the next layer that goes on top of that is what gets in way? Why don't we do the things that we know are good for us? That's really where the listener guide brings people in.
Stacey Harris: What I love about this is this is exactly what I'm talking about when I talk about pre-client education. What are the things that a client needs to know to get the best results working with us, to really get the most out of our time together? Because I think, especially when we bring someone in early in working with them, there can be a lot of, I hate to say, but like wasted time and onboarding them into some of these ideas, into some of these mindsets.
When we start putting this content out on the podcast ahead of time, they can then come into that relationship knowing the language, knowing what's expected of them, knowing how they're going to show up. Having done the beginner work of addressing some of those mindset stuff so that you can actually get into the meat and potatoes of it, the stuff that's going to actually impact change.
I love that you put that together and you were able to, from your existing library, really see where seasonally is the stuff that we need to promote, where in the big picture of the year can we be pointing them to this asset that is absolutely just a collection of our sales assets, a collection of our pre-client education so they can come into a sales call ready to go, actually see results, and not spin their wheels for the first however long while we get them on board with what's happening?
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. Well, and the other piece to that, there are two things that I want to say in response to what you just said, one is that the listener guide actually allowed me to see holes in where I haven't put things in. Then the other thing that I really wanted to say, which was really impactful of you and your podcast, was I now have assets that are about what happens on a sales call, what happens in the coaching process with me.
Those are actually really educational for my prospect as well that when they book a call with me, I can send them the podcast episodes and say, “This is exactly what's going to happen,” so that it alleviates some fear and anxiety around “Is she going to try and sell me?” or “What's going to happen?”
Stacey Harris: I love those kinds of assets. That's so frequently what I'm talking about when I talk about sales assets because honestly, a lot of what keeps people from booking the call is the expectations they put on themselves that they make up in their mind that they're going to need and there are so many coaches now of varying degrees of integrity and ethics.
When we can be really transparent and say, “Here's what's going to happen. Here's what's going to happen when you book the call, here's what you're going to get from me, here's what's going to happen on the call, here's what's going to happen after the call,” in my case, it's “Here's how long you'll have with the proposal, here's what onboarding will look like, here's what our kickoff call will look like,” because I don't actually need to hide anything from you.
I don't need to trick you into doing this because I know I can deliver for you on the other side. That is such a differentiator when we talk about people who are using a lot of like smoke and mirrors to try and fan some flame of interest and oftentimes create interest out of thin air. So I love those assets.
As you move through the program, were there any unexpected wins or takeaways that you didn't anticipate getting but you did in the course of our work together?
Elizabeth Sherman: Well, yeah. One of the biggest things was looking at my data. I came into our work together believing that my podcast was an utter failure.
Stacey Harris: Most people do.
Elizabeth Sherman: And that it wasn't growing and that it was completely flat. But I actually have a graph up on my page right now and I am clearly growing. It was really exciting to see that data and realize, “Oh, I do have people who are interested in what I have to say.”
Stacey Harris: I love that. I will be honest. I always love it especially when the unexpected takeaways are data because it is the thing people are the least excited to do which is why we do it first when you're most excited about the program. We have this window of time where I have you bought in regardless of what we do and that's when we do data because we're all just so excited to start.
But again, if I recall, part of what came out of that data was that listener guide and starting to evaluate where those holes were which made it really easy when we got to month three and we started doing planning. It was like, “Oh, I know what we're doing. We're filling these holes.”
Elizabeth Sherman: Exactly.
Stacey Harris: Our decisions start to be made for us when we start to look at that data and that's what I really love so thank you for having an unexpected win about data. It makes my day. My inner nerd is very happy.
As you shift to being on the other side, we've wrapped now, you've had some time to start implementing, doing the doing, have there been any changes you've noticed to your production process to how you just feel in your production process? I know you're going through a rebrand so there are a lot of extra to-dos and feelings around that. But what is it looking like now?
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. My process actually isn't much different than it was before. I work solely with one VA and we work really well together. I'm actually pretty process-driven myself so we're pretty organized. The day-to-day process really has not changed a lot from when I record an episode to when it goes live.
Stacey Harris: What about your recording process?
Elizabeth Sherman: My recording process?
Stacey Harris: Are you moving to batching?
Elizabeth Sherman: Oh, yeah. I will be moving to batching. I'm still very well ahead of schedule so right now, we're in the middle of December, I am complete through probably the beginning of March.
Stacey Harris: Nice. That's awesome.
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. It just relieves a lot of pressure from me in terms of feeling like I have to record an episode this week. I've really moved to script podcasts. I just prefer it. I just feel less anxiety about it.
Stacey Harris: I have a couple of clients like that.
Elizabeth Sherman: What I'll typically do is I'll typically write a bunch of scripts and then record them all in a day or something like that. It's been a little bit different in terms of how I've worked with my process.
Stacey Harris: That's my favorite way to batch. I think one of the big mistakes people make when taking on batching is they try and batch the whole episode process: planning, outlining or scripting, recording, and getting it over to their editor. Oftentimes, their editor is just doing the editing or maybe editing and show notes but they've got to write the email, they've got to write the social, and they'll try to do all of that and they'll try to do all of that four times, three times, or however many episodes they want to do. That is going to kill you.
Elizabeth Sherman: That's what I was trying to do.
Stacey Harris: That's what most people do when they batch because they're like, “Well, this is what it takes to produce the show.” We’ve talked about this on the podcast somewhere. I'll find the episode where we talked about this but part of the problem is you're trying to batch all the things. What I love about what you're talking about is you're batching each individual task.
We sat down and we planned through March when we wrapped up the container so you already knew what you needed to script. You could sit down and script and then you could sit down and record. That is how batching starts to work really well.
What it may end up looking like is it's not that you don't touch your podcast for weeks at a time but you have writing weeks and recording weeks, planning weeks and review weeks, or whatever that looks like and it becomes a different kind of cycle so you're not doing the same kinds of tasks week in and week out and all of them feel like a lot smaller lift. Because when I tell you to batch four episodes and you're going from idea to final product one at a time, no wonder it's hard to batch.
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. I never got to the point where I felt overwhelmed or burned out with my podcast but I was probably only a few episodes away from doing that.
Stacey Harris: It’s a slippery slope.
Elizabeth Sherman: It really is and I didn't want to get to that point.
Stacey Harris: Well, and also for me, I'll be honest, when I try and do all of it in one go, my end product suffers. I don't script, my outlines are better, and quite frankly, more complete, when I batch them separately than recording. My recordings have much better energy because I much prefer sitting here and recording than I do sitting there and writing.
For me, that's the slog of my process, which is why I outline and I don't script. Writing for me is the hard part. If I have to write, I have to try to manufacture any kind of recording energy. Whereas if I've already written it, I can just sit down and look at it, I've got notes up in my Monday sitting on my monitor right next to our view in Riverside so that I know the flow of the show, I can just sit down and do it. I can just wing it. You and I can be in conversation. I can wing it solo if I need to. I've got my points.
But if I come from doing this into recording, my brain is still the sludge of writing. My in product becomes much higher quality when I break these tasks up and batch them individually. For me, it's definitely a sanity saver. It's definitely, again, we've talked about this in a recent episode about the idea of managing burnout, it is semi-inevitable when you end up on this content hamster wheel for one year, three years, I've been doing this 10 years, it's going to happen from time to time and a great way to get ahead of it is to do exactly what you did, “I'm maybe a couple of episodes away from this being too much, it's time to adjust this process.”
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. Well, and since we stopped working together, one of the other pieces that was huge for me was creating the repeatable series. While we were working together, I created my first repeatable series but I decided on the fly, like who does this, to create another repeatable series that was shorter for the very end of the year for people who want to set goals. It was so easy to do because of how I was able to write the outlines one day, write the scripts the next, and then record on the third.
Stacey Harris: Had you tried to do those in one day, you would have absolutely fried your brain. You'd have been like, “I know,” and nothing else gets done. We don't show up for clients. We don't show up for sales calls. We don't show up for the emails that have to get written, whatever the other stuff is. It becomes “This is all I have the capacity to do.” I love that.
As we wrap up, I want to point listeners in the direction of your show. This is coming out in January. It's January now when you're hearing this, so where can they find your newly rebranded podcast?
Elizabeth Sherman: My podcast is I think pretty much everywhere.
Stacey Harris: It is. Otherwise, I would have mentioned it earlier to you. I’d be like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.”
Elizabeth Sherman: Yeah. It's called The Total Health in Midlife Podcast and yeah, I'm really excited about it. Everyone, listen.
Stacey Harris: Awesome. Nice. We'll have links in the show notes but I want to thank you, Elizabeth, for joining me and sharing your adventure in the Profitable Podcaster Mastermind. As we wrap up, are there any last thoughts you want to leave anyone who might be thinking about joining us for our next round with?
Elizabeth Sherman: No, I mean, what you said was exactly what you delivered and it was great. It was really nice to spend three months on my podcast and really feel like I'm in control with it.
Stacey Harris: I love that. Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining me. I appreciate you.
Elizabeth Sherman: Absolutely. Thank you.
Stacey Harris: So you heard the data win, right? Thought her show was failing but was able to go to the data. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about adding facts to feelings. So often, we're looking at our numbers, we're looking at our metrics, and we're seeing something that's leaving us feeling not so good because we're looking at a really small scale. We're looking at like this month versus last month, May versus April, November versus September, or whatever it is, and we're not getting into any context beyond that.
One of the things I want you to do, this a little bonus tip for you, look at your year-over-year. Compare your May of this year to your May of last year, your November, your August, or whatever it may be. But look at your show not just in the last few months but over the lifetime of your show.
If you're somebody who's at the beginning of your show, this is going to feel extra hard because you don't have a year over a year to compare it to. Make sure you're using assets like Buzzsprout Global Stats. I'll have a link to it in the show notes.
This is a great tool to be able to see where is my show falling amongst other shows being released. Not so that we can compare ourselves but so that we can have some context because often, our expectations for our show are way out of line for what is reality.
We often decide in our heads that there are these other shows that are just getting these bananas big numbers but in reality, most shows are not. And for those of us who work one-on-one or in small groups, guess what, we don't need 100,000 listeners an episode.
If I had that many people listening and converting from my podcast, my team would be in a world of discomfort. What we do need is we need to have enough listeners to deliver us the leads we need to convert people. That's it. Being able to compare our show against our show and in the context of what's happening globally gives us a much more valuable line of sight.
I just wanted to add that on here as I wrapped this episode because it is huge. We also talked about repeatable series, which is one of my favorite things that we cover. The way it breaks down in the Profitable Podcaster Mastermind is we kick off with data, as I shared, when you're most excited, I get you with the thing you're maybe the least excited to do. We’re going to start right up at the top with data.
But also, like I said in the conversation with Elizabeth, it's what helps us answer a lot of our later questions. It helps us to make some decisions really, really easily. So we start off with data and then we start talking about repeatable series. That's what we do in month two is we build our plan. Oftentimes, our clients even record their first repeatable series. Then we close out with building that 12-week content plan, doing the work that we do on our quarterly calls with our production clients, doing the work we do inside of our Podcast Strategy Intensives.
We do that on that call together. There's not like a workbook. That workshop call is us working. We go one by one through the group and we build that 12-week plan together, which is really cool because you get to see everybody build theirs, how they went about it, the questions we're asking ourselves, how we're looking at things, and how we're looking at things seasonally. It's really cool.
I want to invite you to join us because we are getting started for our next round in February. I want to invite you to come join us. Head on over to uncommonlymore.com/mastermind, reserve your seat right now, and let's get into your data, let's build your repeatable series, and let's map out your next 12 weeks. Alright, I'll see you there and I'll see you right back here next week.
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